The Art of Great Copywriting w/ Sean D’Souza
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On the show today, Sean D’Souza, the well-known copywriter and marketing “thinker” from PsychoTactics. He has a membership site called 5000bc and he’s most well known for his incredible book on copywriting, the Brain Audit.
The Brain Audit really made a big impact to me when I read it a few years ago, so it was a thrill to talk to Sean today, and pick his brain about just a strategic kind of psychological-based approach to writing really strong marketing copy for any sort of product.
We also got into his story, where he came from and how he built up his business, and a lot on his lifestyle. We talk about how he takes 3 months of vacations every single year, thing that he’s been doing for about 10 years.
[1:46] Sean’s approach to copywriting and business. Focusing on the 3rd conversion instead of the 1st.
- “What we have today is a lot of information. But we don’t end up whit a lot of skill. My goal is to give someone not more information, but skill.”
- “I can proud myself, I am a marketer that does very little marketing.”
- “The key to business is to get people to come back to you. I’m focusing on the third conversion, not the first conversion.”
[6:25] Sean’s past as a cartoonist. Persistence. The simplest way to start a business.
[16:28] Consulting, training and product: the 3 parts of a business’ system.
- “The companies that do really well do the least amount of consulting.”
- “Why do you start a business? Nobody starts to make a million dollar. They start because they want a better life, which usually means more time.”
[18:40] How to make the transition to more leverage and less consulting.
- “The most important thing in a business is time. The most important thing in life is time. So, if you are going to waste your clients’ time, it doesn’t matter how much you’ll charge, they are going to leave.”
[22:10] What makes a membership site interesting, and how to keep the value long term.
- “If people don’t know people, they’ll leave.”
- “For me, every time someone leaves a job it’s not because of a better salary, but because ‘the people here are not as great as I thought they would be’.”
[31:26] Three months vacations. The formula to set an earnings goal. Work momentum vs Vacation momentum.
- “The right question is not How do I take 3 months off? but is Can I meet the goals in 9, 10, or 11 months instead of 12?“
[37:14] Copywriting firsts steps for a new project. Incorporating storytelling.
- “The first thing is define a human being. Do not do personas, do not look at target audiences, do not make anything from your computer.”
- “Often, research will tell you what you want to hear.”
- Sean D’Souza on Twitter
- Sean D’Souza’s company, PsychoTactics
- The Brain Audit book, by Sean D’Souza
- 5000bc Community
- The 3 Months Vacation Podcast
- Leo Burnett Worldwide
- Good to Great book, by James C. Collins
- Calvin and Hobbes
- Lynda Weinman
- BNI Business Networking
- Secret Life of Testimonials, by Sean D’Souza
- Dartboard Pricing, by Sean D’Souza